Accelerating Bible Translation in Sensitive Contexts

Isabella Scarinzi 0:07
welcome back to the Bible Translation Innovation Podcast, a show brought to you by the E 10 Innovation Lab. Today we are joined by Joel and Clappy, as usual, and in this episode we are going to discuss some of the realities behind translation work, especially when it comes to the remaining all access goal languages. So, you've heard us talking about flexible and scalable quality assurance methods, and those are the methods that place the language community and the church at the center of decision making, from drafting all the way to checking or refinement, but what does that look like when these communities are in challenging contexts? They're not only facing technological barriers, which, which we've talked about before, but they're also living in settings that are often adverse to Christianity itself. So, what would it look like for those communities to access scripture in their own languages, let's dive right in. Then, my first question for you guys today is, what do these challenging contexts look like for some of the communities that still don't have access to scripture? Could either or both of you help us paint a picture of cultural, social, and political barriers that may exist.

Joel Mathew 1:23
Yeah, thank you, Isabella. It's good to be back on

on the show, and talk about this very relevant issue, and it's all the more relevant for the remaining languages,

Isabella Scarinzi 0:03
You,

Joel Mathew 1:36
especially in the all access goal list. Most of those are in some sensitive context and need to be treated as such, so if you this, so to answer a little bit of your question, there are ways to kind of categorize the sorts of threats that you need to understand and how best to define the challenge or the sensitivity concerns of a community, so we can see them as threat threat vectors or threat actors. Also, in our case, one of the most common threat actors is the government itself of the of the land. I'm sure our listeners can imagine multiple countries that are as a policy, as a government policy, opposed to Christianity and the spread of the gospel and Bible translation falls squarely in that category, and so they, they are a threat in a, at a very high level, in the sense that when, when we're trying to do work in a local community, they have the resources that probably no matter how big your Bible translation agency is, they'll have a lot more than that to be able to to monitor and to stop such activity, so those need to be thought through a little differently from smaller threats, like yet very still, still very potent, and threats like extremist groups, and locally in the area, who, who are mostly ideologically opposed, or may have different religious reasons, philosophical reasons to oppose the work of Bible translation, and they are probably not as well resourced as a Bible translation agency, even yet they are, they have a high nuisance value, they are, they are in, in the, in country local to the to where the project is happening to the community, they probably have ways to find out activity faster than probably some other partner outside the country can, and so it's they have, you have to kind of think through those that threaten it in a little different way. Also, there are other things around community and family that are also very relevant here. I feel that most, most of our listeners would understand how certain religions are very protective of community and family members changing their faith, and any, any such changes can easily be detected between the community, because they're already so close knit and kind of are in each other's lives day in and day out. Yeah, and so such changes can really flag a lot of alarm and bring a lot of, a lot of scrutiny to a project that may be trying to do, to be done kind of secretly.

Chris "Klappy" Klapp 5:16
It's interesting, you talk about change, I mean, isn't that the point of the gospel to change lives, like God sent His son, you know. In the reason why He sent His son is basically to redeem us, right? So the whole point of Christianity and spreading the gospel is to bring change, and that very change makes it identifiable, so to a certain extent, the biggest risk factor is our lives being changed for the good, right? Us becoming Christians in a land where they're anti-Christian, in and of itself becoming a Christian, you start to behave differently, and in that itself is a threat vector, and so I know you know, hearing stories over the years, it's just there's a reason why people are martyred and they're pushed out, but it, it does hit that funnel that you were talking about, Joel. Sometimes it comes from the government, sometimes it comes from culture or subcultures with those extremist groups, but usually they're usually with the culture it's religious based or anti religious based, but with the government it's usually policy based to trying to protect, you know, their way of their control, their power, you know, Christianity changes too much and we will no longer be in power if if Christianity takes over, and then you know, families, a way of life. There's a lot, if you think about, like, in certain cultures, like Christianity doesn't allow certain things that, whether the Bible calls it a sin or just certain behaviors and activities that's just against what happens in that region, and so becoming a Christian, you don't allow certain things, you don't stand for certain things, you just don't accept people being either abused or mistreated when you have that new lens, and so then you start living out your life, and and now it just causes all kinds of scrutiny, unlike in outer protection for the family, people are basically pushed out, and in Bible translation, just the very fact of becoming a Christian puts you at risk, and so how can the Bible itself be translated in a region where just the fact you got exposure to the Bible and believed what it said, you started living your life differently in all that pressure in persecution just is the groundwork for why these are the last remaining languages to get a Bible translated in that region, right, there's a reason why there's a last on the all access go list. These aren't the easy languages that everybody celebrates Christianity. If that were true, they'd already have the gospel already translated for them, and so, yeah, all these threat vectors come protecting an ideology that is anti-Christian,

Joel Mathew 8:24
yeah, and I think one of the things, as you were talking, Clapy, it makes me wonder, is how a lot of the times the fear of working in such areas can be debilitating for somebody who may be wanting to do so from within or without the community, and the reality is this is not a new problem, this, the world is opposing this work of the gospel and even Bible translation is not a new problem that we are facing today. It's been ever since the gospel started going out, since the Great Commission and the day of Pentecost. So, I, I believe what has probably what is more relevant, especially for us to talk about today, is that the way the conditions of the world have changed, and those those attacks and threats look a little different, and how best can we be aware and prepared in prayer to equip the local church, the translators to to feel that they know the risks that they're taking. I mean, it's not without risk, it's not to mitigate all risks. I don't think that is true. We all are taking some level of risk by even talking about this openly, you. Um, but there's, of course, a lot more on the line for people on the community who are doing this under the nose of a government that probably doesn't want them, and it's considered illegal. It's, it's almost an encouragement to say that the church God will establish his church, and he'll continue to do what he has set out to do. One example recently that I was really encouraged by was in a secure and a sensitive context, I got to connect with a person who, who himself is not necessarily in, in the, in country, but was helping a team within the country, and he, the language itself was so sensitive that he didn't share, and I didn't ask the you in the language name, which is totally fine, and I'm, I'm glad to not know, just know enough to help, but what he was trying to do is trying to, so the local community was trying to do an oral Bible translation, and so the output of whatever they were producing is recordings, and they were facing the challenge that if these recordings of the Bible were shared a little more broadly within their community, it can easily pinpoint who these people are, who are doing these recordings, because it's a rather small community, which is not unlike a lot of these remaining languages that need Bible translations, and they didn't; they wanted to be able to share these recordings, of course, but wanted to do so without being obvious about who these, who these individuals are, who are making the recordings, and the person I was talking to is trying to help take these recordings and manually edit them, change them, change the tone, the spacing between the words, adding silence, and then getting some user feedback to get, make sure it doesn't sound too robotic and still make sense for people, and finally using that as a, as the final published recording, so that there is some level of protection, but we talked about certain new AI techniques and tools that are on the that are available to do this automatically out of the box using voice cloning technology, and he was so thrilled to hear that that can save him hours of work, and actually, even be more, be more protective of the individuals on the field, and allow this to be distributed without, without hesitation. So that was an exciting conversation, encouraging to hear the good work that people are taking so much risk for the cause of the gospel to do,

Chris "Klappy" Klapp 13:04
yeah, and you just shared a story about, like, some of the modern threat vectors, or, and how we can address them, but for years, most Bible translation has been text, and when you're doing Bible translation and trying to build tools that are secure in those sensitive regions, you've got to think of three, you know, we, I oversimplify them to like three categories of security, like you have the application, you know, how obvious is it running on your device, you know, you open it up, somebody somehow unlocks your phone or unlocks your laptop. How easily are they going to discover your Bible translation application? The second one is data in transit, like, or is that application hitting some publicly known Bible translation or Bible-related resource on the internet? That's that's a huge threat vector right there, so most of our Bible translation tools connect and phone home and hit a Bible translation organization's website, so that's a threat vector right there, and even if you lock down your application to where it never phones home, never touches the internet, and you truly have an offline app that is air-gapped, you know, as we explored Joel when we were talking about Fluent and potential opportunities, or things that we're going to explore addressing with Fluent Mobile. That's one of the hardest ones, is to fully protect it with an air-gapped installation, and you know we end up kind of waiting and punting on that one because you have yet another that third category of threat vector is your data at risk just because you have it fully offline and it doesn't phone home you still have that third data at rest How is it encrypted house it stored in how does it get anywhere useful just because. Because it's fully air gap doesn't mean those files don't need to transfer somewhere else, right? It does nobody any good if it stays on that air gap device, so that human touch point of getting those files off onto a thumb drive, onto an SD card, onto some other device, even if it was just a Bluetooth to some other Android device, now the data is back in transit, whether it's a human mule, you know, transferring those files back to where it can be published somehow. Do you have those three categories? It's either the application puts you at risk, the data in transit puts you at risk, or you know, the data at rest. And now what you just shared was yet another one. Is audio oral bibles, you know, is audio, and it's read aloud by a human, and that human basically has a voice print, just like we have fingerprints. And so now we have this whole new threat vector for oral bible translation that just by somebody recording puts their life on the line, so in this context their life is at risk, and yeah, just the complexity seem to seem to grow over time, the security models or threat vectors, and you talked about the fears, you know, the first kind of fears, you know, fear of your life, but when you have a calling and a conviction, you do it anyway. But then the other fear is something I think I'm guilty of. I'm afraid I won't be able to perfectly protect everything, so I may hold back from trying to meet a need, because I'm afraid I might cause more harm than good, so I think neither fear is good, you know. How do we, how do we continue to work together, collaborate, and figure out how to address those?

Joel Mathew 16:51
I actually, that makes me think about sign languages, also, since you were talking about voice as a personally identifying information, it's a lot more for sign languages, where it's your whole video of the person that needs to be on there to actually communicate the Bible, and there is technology to kind of replace the person, but I've been realizing in conversations with dev teams is that itself is not as sufficient to protect the identity of the signer, because there are nuances in how they sign, where their hand comes back to rest, or the extent of facial expression, or the way they use the lettuce idiosyncrasies in their specific sign. It's like almost how we all say the same words in a slightly different way, maybe, and we can almost figure out who's saying it to some extent, if we know the person well, or you can think about, like, our voice is a kind of identifying information, and as similarly the way they sign can easily be figured out, that oh, this is actually even though this picture of this person is completely different. I can see who this may be in my community, because I talk to this person or communicate with this person often enough, and so that that's another whole new threat vector to kind of work through, and yeah, yeah, it's the complexities are different, but we still have to understand that fundamentally we're still trying to say come back to the same problems of trying to protect the person who's communicating, protect the message also, and so that it's not tied to too personally with an individual, that it's not about them, it's the word of God ultimately that matters. It's easiest to do in text more than audio, more than sign. So it's just, you know, the challenges ahead are different than what we have seen in the past, yet fundamentally similar.

Isabella Scarinzi 19:21
It's encouraging to hear about Bible translators like the one you just mentioned, Joel, who's willing to put so much time into protecting those that are doing oral Bible translation and manually changing all of that, but that's also where we're thinking about potential solutions and how we can accelerate that pace and close that gap, so they can see the Bible translated into the language they prefer earlier, sooner rather than later. So, what are some of those potential solutions that are out there that organizations and. Teams are testing out. I'm not sure if we've cracked the code fully, but what are some of the things that could help?

Joel Mathew 20:09
Yeah, yeah. Thanks, Isabella. I think you mentioned, I mean, you stated correctly. I don't think we can ever say we have an exhaustive list of all solutions to all problems. I don't think anybody can say that, but there are some best practices out there, and in no way are we attempting to be exhausted in our listing of those in on this podcast, but hopefully it gives enough pointers, and we would love for listeners to ask more questions or interact with us to either share some of their own thoughts or ask other questions that we might be able to think through and respond to, but one of the first that comes to my mind, and if you want to think about broad categories of where these, where these solutions might fit in, I think communication is by far fundamental to do any work in in ministry, I would say, especially so in Bible translation, where you're usually working with some other person or community, even to actually complete the Bible translation work, and so how can we securely communicate between each other and one of the tools that stands out and is trusted generally in for such use cases that not just Bible translation, not just ministry, Christian ministry, but even for journalists, journalistic interests, and so on, is Signal, which is a chatting app that I think it's has stronger security guarantees than WhatsApp, even though WhatsApp is a lot more popular, so Signal has some really good cryptography, end to end encryption, and also has some good features that are thoughtfully developed, so that you're not sacrificing your security for trying some for having, say, voice calling or video calling or some groups within Signal, and so on, which in certain apps it can seem like if you use certain features you suddenly fall off the cliff of what's end to end encrypted in and are back to being identified. So I would, yeah, I personally would recommend generally signal and for basic communication. Now it doesn't cover all use cases, but that does help a lot in just communicating. The other area is just securely using tools. Now communication is fundamental, but most probably you're going to use some sort of tooling to actually complete the work of bubble translation, and there are lots and lots of things to consider there, and depending on whether you're doing a text total or sign translation, what sort of data do you create? Where do you store it? What sort of output, input, who do you share it with? How do you share it? And so there's a lot to think and talk about there, but some of the I mentioned about the oral Bible translation example, but just related to that, I think the text to speech technology that is pretty - I would say is it's pretty usable if you have some manually developed speech and text data to tune a model that already exists. You might be able to get it to sound like somebody else completely, but still speak your language rather fluently. I would say, and that mitigates some of the concerns about using a specific voice or a person's voice within your team, similarly. the voice cloning example that I mentioned before, of how do we switch out the voice of an existing recording for completely another voice and switch from male to female voice, etc. That's also possible to do today with AI. Yeah, yeah, and the last one I'll mention before wanting to hear from Clappy also about this is just generally offline solutions are great, and they, I think, generally. People have different sort of conceptions of what is most secure, and that may not be the most that may not actually reflect reality all the time. So, some, some people might think, oh, if I completely am offline all the time, I am the safest, and I don't think that's always true either.

Clappy and I have discussed about the trade off of going completely offline versus being online, and yet I think in the offline case, like you just mentioned, the data at rest becomes a big issue, you can keep all your data on your phone or on your computer without it ever being synced to any other server on the network, but what, what happens to your data when somebody gets your device, or when you travel, it gets confiscated, and so that that becomes an issue to kind of think through. How do we manage data at rest, and another thing I would say is, if for application developers who are looking at trying to go completely offline, personally from in the process of developing flow, in which we are currently in active development, for especially flu and mobile, we've come to the realization that you know it's very hard for an application to say that it's guaranteed to never touch the internet ever, because that sort of a guarantee I want to say is impossible to make with without the cooperation of the operating system on which the application is being is currently being run on, so if you're running your app on Android or iOS, there are fundamental primitives in Android and iOS that can completely limit the device from going online and offline, or going online rather. Those are much better guarantees than anything that you can code into your own app, because it sits above the OS to to be able to make those guarantees, and that that's in my mind not as secure. So I would say going on airplane mode is safer than an app that says I will never go offline, sorry, now go online to actually share any data, so that's just a general thinking around making guarantees in the at the app level, not to say we shouldn't try, but it's hard to put too much weight on such efforts,

Chris "Klappy" Klapp 27:40
in addition to taking apps offline and trying to guarantee that safety, or ensuring your device is in airplane mode, or you turn off your Wi-Fi and your Bluetooth, and everything else, because we do know that even if you turn your Wi-Fi off, there's still ways to access the internet, sometimes some of your devices will find other ways to communicate, not that they have minds of their own, not yet, anyway. But having having the applications wrapped and deployed in a virtual machine is what I've seen some of our partners do, and so they're taking some of our offline apps, there are apps that are offline compatible, but they're not sure if they can quite trust it yet. Just to have a little bit extra protection, they're wrapping them in virtual machines and basically deleting the internet, you know, the NICS, the virtual NICs, the virtual network adapters are like removed from the container, so without you going and rebuilding the container from scratch, you're not going to have access to the internet. So, these, these virtual machines are tested to not be able to access the internet. It's more, a little more complicated than that, but I think that's a viable way to bring our partners as part of the solution there, like them letting them build those containers, test those containers, and feel comfortable with those, but you know you're mentioning other complexities, you know, like even if with you having your files at rest, you almost need a human data mule to get those files back somewhere, so touching on those security concerns, whether, whether it's transporting the data back, so that that can be checked or published, you know, after that translation work has been done. You also have, like earlier in the Bible translation process, you basically have training needs. These teams have to be trained somewhere, either they're trained where they're at or they go somewhere else to be trained, and the more you learn about some of these remaining areas around the world that don't have scripture yet, culturally. A good number of people that just don't leave their village, so the fact that they leave or somebody comes to visit them actually kind of puts a target on their back of like, hey, what's going on, what's happening here. So we have a new threat vector, even if we eliminate all the technical ones, right, just because we eliminated all the security, we plugged all the gaps, we have a perfectly secure data flow from a data perspective. Well, now you have the human element of looking suspicious, and if the community has nothing but mobile phones, if we're shipping them laptops to go work on, you just put another target on their back, so sometimes everything we do to help help with the Bible translation process, sometimes it's just the obvious thing that they're in contact with somebody else with devices that aren't natural in their community, if you're the only one with a laptop, you either work for the government or something else is going on, like I've, I've heard that from some of the OBT teams, so the Oral Bible Translation teams in Southeast Asia. It's like being there, visiting them, talking to them, asking them what some of their biggest challenges are. They're like, well, sometimes we can't take our laptops around because we're afraid we'll get mugged, you know, and even having the backpack on that holds our laptop puts us suspicious, and you know, we've had people mugged be just because they were wearing the backpack that held the laptop, which held their Bible translation tools, so we have to consider just overall, what - what are we doing here? What is the what are the implications of the way people work and live their lives now that they're a part of the Bible translation team, and how do we blend into their natural way of life?

Right, and so fluent mobile, a lot of what we're talking about, of why we're going to add another category of Bible translation app, and it be mobile is to fit in right to get rid of that confusing element of why is that person using a laptop, and now it opens, puts them up open for questions, whether it's a government, a family member, or just a community member, like that is still a threat vector, and so fitting into the existing devices, I think, is is not just what Fluent is doing, but I hear other apps, you know, in the BT space are looking at going mobile to address that very concern.

Joel Mathew 32:44
Yeah, that reminds me of the idea of security through obscurity. Just by not standing out, you might, you get some level of security if you, if you were.. it's like if you wear a tin hat and walk around or or do something crazy to keep yourself secure, you just stand out a lot more, and then people get more curious about why you would do that, though you could take that idea too far, but I think it's that is value in, in like, in that example of the backpack and the laptops, there are very realistic scenarios where security needs to be thought through holistically and not necessarily from without involving the community. I think the local people, they know and feel these things every day, and they're probably the best judges of what feels most comfortable and safe for them to do.

Isabella Scarinzi 33:48
Yeah, it's helpful to get a little bit into the technicalities, so our listeners understand what's possible out there. But don't worry, Joel even didn't even talk about post-quantum encryption yet, maybe at another episode

Joel Mathew 34:04
I'll save that

Isabella Scarinzi 34:06
one. So, as we work through these challenges, we're part of E 10, which is a collective impact alliance, and one of our main values is collaboration. Right? Where do you see the greatest opportunities for collaboration when it comes to these contexts, what gives you hope that these communities will be able to lead Bible translation efforts as part of their own ministry, even in the midst of all the obstacles.

Chris "Klappy" Klapp 34:37
Yeah, I mentioned working with partners that have taken existing tools and wrapped them in a virtual machine, one of our technology providers actually works almost like I'm going to oversimplify it, and I apologize if it makes it sound less powerful than what it is, but you remember in the terminal days where you had. Mainframe or a mini computer, not that I'm even old enough to experience it, but I've heard about it, right. You have this terminal that actually doesn't hold the application, doesn't even hold the data, it doesn't do anything but visually, or back then it was a command line, but it basically did all the compute remotely, and you basically only saw what was was typed and being edited on your screen, and you basically had a terminal, so you can take an existing web application, not even download it and run it on your, your phone or on your laptop, it actually runs on their servers, and you're interacting with it, and so I think partnerships that take creativity of how we might be able to stack our technology together for added layers of security, but then acknowledging there's no one silver bullet, so we're going to have to work together to better understand these contexts, and sometimes it's the regions themselves, the people themselves, who will understand their security threat factors. I mean, they've survived this long, they understand some of the challenges that they have. Collaboratively, we can help mitigate as many of the concerns as possible, but you know there's no guarantee, and you know there's martyrs every year. I mean, like, there's sadly we know too many stories and have had personal experience being connected to people who have been martyred, where there have been security breaches, and sadly, it's not just external threat vectors, sometimes it's internal team members, and I think those are the most devastating ones. And you know, it's it, and when we're talking about collaboration, sometimes it's just maybe also sharing stories of what's happened around the world, so we can be aware with our eyes wide open of what we need to be cognizant of, and paying attention to, and so you know, not to spread fear and paralyze people, but just so they have their eyes open in and can hopefully prevent another one of these stories.

Joel Mathew 37:18
Yeah, that's that's a really heavy topic. I personally know of a story where a supposed believer from the community was later on found out to be not really a believer and was trying to just fit in and gather information, and later shared that with the government or the authorities in that land, and the people who had been there had to leave the country right away, and so this is, yeah, this happens, and it's really difficult. It's probably the hardest of them, because it's totally unsuspecting, and you have to ultimately, we need the grace of God, and be in prayer. And, of course, God is sovereign over all of these things. One practical thing I've seen that's been really encouraging is the efforts in the diaspora. What we mean by that is people from a language group in a sensitive part of the world that it's difficult to get access to, who are not living there, they're scattered in other parts of the world, and say in the United States, or in another country where there is more freedom to do such, uh, such work. If you're able to connect with that community outside the country who speaks the language, they can become either the translation team themselves or connect us with the right people and be the bridge to actually get the work done, and I think the hard part there is connecting and getting to know these people, because as is these language language communities are so small, and then finding enough of them who are believers, and and and build trust is the hard part, so, but it is, it is especially important for the, the most challenging of situations where we don't see a very clear way to go in and be present for the community or in country,

Chris "Klappy" Klapp 39:43
think one of my favorite aspects of preparing for this episode was just talking about how none of this is a surprise, right? Like, you read through the New Testament, and Jesus basically laid this out, this is what to expect, right? I mean, you got. To be persecuted, you're going to be hated in my name. You know it's going to turn brother against brother, like split family. So all of these threat vectors we talked about are actually laid out in the New Testament by Jesus and by Paul. We watched it happen time and time again. You look through all of church history, none of this is new, and honestly, it's those the time the security was breached and martyrs gave their lives, God even finds a way to use all of that, right? Like, if all of this fails, and no matter how much we try to protect, in things go wrong and people die. We ask Christians being called to do this work. We know that's a risk. So, if we're willingly giving our lives, not saying that we do it haphazardly or just yolo it and get rid of all these security concerns, and we just go march forward. We want to be smart about it, but God uses these stories to inspire the next generation, right? Like, think of how many people gave their lives because they saw the conviction of somebody who was martyred. So, there's only so much we can control, and we do our best, and even though we're doing our best, we fail, and that doesn't make an excuse for sloppy work or insecure practices, but I just love the fact that even when I feel my most insecure about not being able to meet these needs, knowing that God can use those failures to further His kingdom, no matter what.

Joel Mathew 41:42
I think all of this comes back to basically relationship and trust building. I think both of those are what all of our work is based on. It's, it's on love, and that's what relationships are based on, and, and through that, building trust, so our desire as people who, who probably don't speak the languages that are most at risk now and need, need people, local people, to do them. Our role is to come alongside and help and equip them as best as we can, but it's really in relationship with them, and they are the best judges locally to make those decisions. And what we've seen mostly is the local people are excited to work together, and they are already taking great risks. They are already taking great steps of faith to move forward, and what we can do is come alongside them and give them context of things that we've seen in other places that have worked, or are certain pieces of information or tools that might be helpful in what they're doing, and a lot of that is very encouraging, because for them it's a, it's almost somebody marching alongside them, and it's helping them to move forward without fear, and I think this is a call for all of us, ultimately, that we are not to be led by fear, but through faith and hearing God's voice and in the decisions we have in front of us every day, I think the future is continues to be exciting. The church will be established, God will complete His work, and we can take great peace and hope in that.

Isabella Scarinzi 43:40
Amen. Yeah, it's not all just about advanced technology. Radically broadening involvement is a really big piece of reaching the all access goals together, and I'm grateful we all get to be a part of this mission. So, I know this was a more serious, maybe a more heavy topic. I appreciate Jill and Clappy sharing some of their experiences and some of the insights of what they have been seeing across the Bible translation movement. This isn't just about the innovation lab, but really is about what we're doing in partnership with each other. So, I did want to say, you probably noticed that we didn't talk about AI during this episode, that was on purpose, and that's because we are going to have a whole separate episode just to talk about large lingua models data safety. It deserves its own episode, so we will address that in our next episode. In the meantime, if you do have any type of questions, you can send them to us, and we will read them out loud, and we will answer them at our next episode. So, send them over to Lab at E 10 dot Bible. Don't forget to subscribe, send us your questions, and we will see you next time. The

Jake Doberenz 44:55
Bible Translation Innovation Podcast is brought to you by the E 10 and. Innovation Lab. This episode is edited and produced by Jake Doberenz with Theophany Media. Your hosts were Joel Matthew and Christopher Clapp, with facilitation by Isabella Scarenzi. Please subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, and we'll be with you again next month.